Do Mormons Worship The Same Jesus As Christians?

I recently entered into a conversation on Jessica’s blog regarding whether Mormons worship the same Jesus as Christians.   I was surprised to discover a few Evangelicals who expressed the belief they do.  Being a former Mormon I must say I wholeheartedly disagree.  To those Christians who hold this position, I would like to give you something to consider…  The First Vision.  Let me explain.

Joseph Smith claimed Jesus Christ and Heavenly Father appeared to him in 1820 and ushered in the restoration of the true church of Jesus Christ – now known as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  When considering this First Vision claim there are only two positions one can take.

  1. It happened
  2. It did not happen

If one believes the First Vision did in fact happen (Number 1)  there are only two possibilities to consider.

A.  One of the beings who appeared to Joseph Smith was in fact Jesus Christ

B.  Neither of the beings who appeared to Joseph Smith were Jesus Christ

Think about the implications of these two positions for a second.  If “A” is true and Jesus Christ did appear to Joseph then The Mormon Church is what it claims to be… the true Church of Jesus Christ.  For it was started by Jesus Christ Himself calling Joseph Smith as His prophet during the First Vision encounter.  To those of you who believe Mormons worship the same Jesus as us – are you prepared to accept this and join the Mormon Church?  However, if “B” is true, then who was the being who appeared to Joseph Smith if it was not Jesus Christ?  Think about this for a second… this is the being who started The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.  This is the being who appeared to Joseph Smith and called him as his prophet.  This is the being Mormons worship.  If it was not Jesus Christ, who was it?  One thing we can say for sure… if it was not Jesus Christ then we can rest assured Mormons do not worship the same Jesus Christ we worship.

To those who hold the belief the First Vision did not happen (number 2 above) there are still problems to consider when holding the belief Mormons worship the same Jesus as Christians.  For then you have to believe the founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith, perpetuated a lie of an indescribable magnitude and in the process used this lie to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.  In other words, Joseph Smith knowingly made up all of the visions and used these false visions to preach and lead others to the REAL Jesus Christ.  In addition, you must believe that he knowingly deceived others into believing THEY EXPERIENCED VISIONS.  For some of his visions were experienced in the presence of and by others.  All of this deceit while still preaching the REAL Jesus Christ.  While one can hold this position, to me it strains credulity.

Personally, I believe the evidence points to the fact Joseph Smith did have a first vision (number 1 above) but the being in this vision was not Jesus Christ (B above).  I believe Joseph’s well documented involvement in the occult opened some undesirable doors and the being who appeared to him was an evil spirit sent to lead the hearts of men astray (1 John 4:1).  IMO, the Jesus of Mormonism is not the Jesus Christ of The Bible.  My prayer is for all Mormons to let go of the legalistic bonds of false religion and turn to the True Jesus Christ of The Bible.  In Him there is safety, in Him there is peace!

God Bless!

Darrell

  • Esther

    Hey Darrel, i’m esther from Indonesia. I don’t know about Mormon, but thanks about your blog, i do understand now.

    Thanks Darrel…

  • Brad

    Excellent points, Darrell. I’ll be curious to see how they’re dissected by Mormons, to try to show how the conclusions you reached aren’t true or don’t make sense. But I don’t really see any other logical way to look at it.

  • Anonymous

    I go with 1 and A.

  • Brad

    Do you have a reason for going with 1 and A?

  • Hi, darrell. This is what I beleive is at the heart of the differences between Christianity and Mormonism. Christians and LDS have radically different beliefs about “who” Jesus is. For Christians, Jesus is the I AM, He has always been God. He is not the Spirit son of God, but is God. The more I read the Bible, the more I see the deep contrasts and differences.
    My husband and I ( my husband is LDS) have had many discussions about the person of Jesus and who He is. We have ended those dicussions with the agreement that we are talking about 2 different beings. Either that, or the LDS have errent beliefs about Jesus and who He is. I for one simply believe we are worshipping different beings.
    I also believe this is why Christians have a hard time accepting LDS as full fledged Christians.

    God bless,
    gloria

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  • Andrew

    Darrell,

    Your logic is correct, either Joseph Smith really experienced the First Vision or he didn’t. Also true is that if Joseph had that vision, either one of the personages was Jesus Christ or he wasn’t.

    The further explanation that if one of these beings really was Jesus Christ than the implications are that The Risen Savior himself, even Jesus Christ, restored his Church to the Earth today. Even the same Church he established in his mortal ministry by the same organization of aposltes and prophets (Ephesians 4:11-13). If this is true how you have explained, what marvelous knowledge! What a miralce!

    I do know that Joseph saw the First Vision and I do know that one of the personages he saw was the Savior Jesus Christ appearing along side God the Father.

    Look at the evidence. In Acts chapter 5, a Pharisee named Gamaliel warned against imprisoning Peter and John. He told of all the others who have risen up yet because they were not of God they were scattered at fallen. But then he gives what I believe an inspired statment, “But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.” (Acts 5:34-40)

    Looking back on the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, countless attempts to overthrow the Church have been attempted (even the cold blooded murder of Joseph Smith), yet, because it is of God, it has not been overthrown. Even more so, it has thrived, prospered, and continues to grow througout the world.

    Yes, we do believe in the same Jesus. The same Jesus of the New Testament. What wonderful knowledge to know this same Jesus has restored his Church today!

  • Andrew,

    Thanks for your comment. I am curious about something you said.

    “I do know that Joseph saw the First Vision and I do know that one of the personages he saw was the Savior Jesus Christ appearing along side God the Father.”

    You then follow with saying you know this due to the fact the Church as you say has not been overthrown despite countless attempts. Andrew, the same could be said for the Baptist, Catholic and Presbyterian Churches along with several others… most of which have been in existence much longer than the LDS Church. Does this fact make them the True Church of Jesus Christ? This evidence seems fairly weak. How do you know Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith?

    Darrell

  • Brad

    I was just getting ready to write the same response, Darrell, to Andrew.

    Andrew, how indeed do you “know”, as you say, that Smith did indeed see the one true Christ in that Vision (regardless of which account of the First Vision you use)? Your reasoning you gave behind why you think that could be applied to any number of churches or religions, not just Mormonism.

  • Andrew

    Darrell and Brad,

    Good questions. After reading back through my post I see where you are coming from with those questions. I guess I didn’t explain myself clearly. The paragraph regarding Acts 5:34-40 was not intended to explain how I know Joseph Smith saw Christ in the First Vision. Rather, it was meant to simply show that whether or not you believe the LDS Church is the true church or not, it is at least evident that the First Vision was of God, contrary to Darrell’s previous statement that Joseph saw and evil spirit and thus we do believe in the same Christ.

    Also, in a sense we do believe that churches such as the Baptist, Presbyterian, etc. were in one way or another “by God.” To explain that we must understand there was a Great Apostasy, or a falling away from the original Church Christ established during his ministry. Paul prophesies of this apostasy in Acts 20:28-30.

    To not go into a large amount of detail on Christian history, the Church was twisted and changed both by government and ecclesiastical leaders. To break from the iron fist the Catholic Church had on the world, we believe that God did inspire men such as John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Calvin, etc. As these men went about reforming the teaching of the Catholic Church, we believe they were led by God in preparing the way for the restoration of his Church.

    It is important to note, each of these reformers never suggested they were forming the true church, they simply stated they saw things that were wrong and were trying to fix them. Please follow this link to read a talk by Robert D. Hales, a man we consider to by a latter-day Apostle. http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=20a078de9441c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1

    As for how do I know Joseph Smith saw Christ in the First Vision. James directs us in James 1:5 that “if any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God.” Through prayer I have been able to ask God if Joseph really did see the Father and the Son in the First Vision. Through the Holy Ghost He has answered me. That is how I know, I received the comforting witness of the Holy Ghost.

    Sorry I don’t have time to proof read this… I hope there aren’t many grammatical errors! 🙂

  • Andrew,

    Thanks for coming back over to converse.

    I understand what you are getting at but still insist your use of Acts 5:34-40 to justify the legitamacy of JS’s vision could easily be used to support other religions. Mohammed’s vision was several years prior to JS’s and his movement is stronger than ever. The Catholic Church, Buddism, Hinduism etc have all been around much longer than the Mormon Church so, according to your logic, they must all be of God as well. My point is this… you must compare the teachings of the LDS Church to The Bible to garner whether it is true or not. IMO, when this is done the evidence points to the fact the LDS Church is false. In addition, simply saying an institution still exists must mean it is of God is terribly illogical.. for then everything that exists today must be of God because it still exists. The fact is, God will destroy all false religions and institutions in the end and Mormonism will fall.

    Being former LDS I understand the doctrine of the great apostasy very well. Unfortunately, I believe Acts 20:28-30 is being ripped out of context in order to support this false teaching. I do not believe God ever removed His Church or power from the earth. Christ told us He would always be with us (Matt 28:20), His Church would never be prevailed against (Matt 16:18) and we would have the Holy Spirit to be with us (John 14:15-21). If Christ pulled His Church from the earth then all of these promises were in vain.

    “Through prayer I have been able to ask God if Joseph really did see the Father and the Son in the First Vision. Through the Holy Ghost He has answered me.”

    I understand your position… I would like to ask you a question though. How do you know the spirit which answered you was really from God? 1 John 4:1 tells us FALSE SPIRITS exist and we are also told they will try to deceive people. I have several friends/acquantances of different faiths and I have asked each of these individuals how they “know” their faith is true/of God. Although they use different terminology to describe their experiences, they all say basically the same thing… “God told them so”. Here are some examples…

    1. Muslim friend – Allah has revealed Mohammed as His prophet.
    2. Protestant – God has told them through prayer and life experiences that Christianity is true and The Bible is His word.
    3. Jehovah’s Witness – Jehovah has told them The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is His organization.
    4. Mormon – God told them through a burning in the bosom that The Book of Mormon is true and Joseph Smith is a Prophet.

    Each of these religions teach very different things and cannot all be true at the same time. For, if Islam is true then Christianity cannot be true because Christ is not the Messiah. However, if Christianity is true then Mormonism, JW’s and Islam are all false. Since members of each of these religions claim God has told them their faith is true, logic tells us someone is being lied to by a false spirit. The only question is which one. There are only two possibilities.

    1. One of them is right and the others are being led and lied to by a false spirit

    or

    2. All of them are wrong and are being led and lied to by a false spirit

    So, my question to you Andrew is how do you know the spirit which told you Joseph Smith was a prophet was really the Holy Spirit from God and not a false spirit? What makes the answer you received right and all the other wrong?

    Darrell

  • Andrew

    Darrell,

    First of all let me just tell you I appreciate that you and I can have a conversation like this without being offended or defensive. I love that we can both share our views and while sharing a difference of opinion, it doesn’t seem like we are arguing.

    As for all the churches that you talked about, we believe that there is truth in many churches. Of coarse, if they are teaching that Jesus is the Savior of the world, we are God’s children, etc. they are teaching truth and can feel the Holy Ghost. As you know, as Latter-day Saints we believe some truths have been lost or distorted and we invite people of other faiths to bring the truths they know and let us add to them with the fulness of the Gospel.

    You asked how do I know my testimony is not based on a witness of a false spirit. You are correct, there are many false spirits that mislead people today. The way I know I’ve truly felt the Holy Ghost is by the explanation of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:” The feelings I’ve felt as I ponder the Book of Mormon, the story of the restoration of the Gospel, etc., the Spirit I’ve felt matches perfectly with Paul’s description of the Spirit to the Galations.

    I’m not anyone to refute what others claim they’ve felt. But I am one to declare what I’ve felt, and that is that the Spirit of the Lord has testified to me that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ; he was called to be a prophet; and through him the Savior restored his Gospel, his priesthood, and his Church to the Earth in these latter-days.

    Sincerely,

    Andrew

  • Andrew

    Sorry, I just realized my response to your last post somehow got posted above this post.

  • Andrew,

    I appreciate as well the tone of our conversation. Thank you for the kind manner in which you converse and I hope we can continue! 🙂

    You said:

    “The way I know I’ve truly felt the Holy Ghost is by the explanation of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance:” The feelings I’ve felt as I ponder the Book of Mormon, the story of the restoration of the Gospel, etc., the Spirit I’ve felt matches perfectly with Paul’s description of the Spirit to the Galations.”

    I can appreciate what you are saying. The thing is members of other faiths, faiths which are diametrically opposed to Mormonism, faiths such as Christianity, JW and Muslim, all claim their religions give them the exact same feelings you describe. If Mormonism is true and JS was a prophet, why would The Holy Spirit give a Muslim these feelings when they ponder the idea of Mohammed being His prophet? Why would He give my wife and I a “peace that passes all understanding” when we left The LDS Church? If He did He is lying and as we all know, The Holy Spirit does not lie.

    Again, I believe the facts lead one to the logical conclusion someone is being led by a false spirit. The only question is who and how do we know?

    God bless!

    Darrell

  • Andrew

    Darrell,

    Well we seem to have funneled it down to this point, who is receiving witness of the Holy Ghost and who is being deceived? As I stated earlier, I’m not one to tell someone what they did or did not feel. However, I do know what I’ve felt and I can not doubt it came from the Holy Ghost.

    An interesting thought… if the LDS church is a lie and Joseph Smith was deceived by a false spirit, then the only answer that could possibly be true is that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ. All other Christian churches have branched off from the Catholic Church because of a difference in doctrine in one way or another. But if the Church of Christ really was never taken from the Earth in apostasy, then history shows it must be the Catholic Church.

    However, as you know, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a spin off or a branch of any other church. Rather, we claim it was founded my the Master himself, the Savior of the World. We claim no origin from any other Church.

    So I can understand your point of view better I would like to ask you a few questions. Please don’t feel obligated to answer if you don’t want to. Being formerly LDS, were your born a member or were you a convert to the Church? Did you serve a mission? How long have you not been associated with the Church?

    Sincerely,

    Andrew

  • Andrew,

    “Well we seem to have funneled it down to this point, who is receiving witness of the Holy Ghost and who is being deceived?”

    I agree and to me this is the fundamental point because of the implications if one is deceived. We cannot all be receiving our answers from the Holy Spirit and The Bible warns about deceiving spirits. We all feel feelings we believe are from God (peace, love, joy, long suffering and the like) therefore those feelings alone are not definitive. So, who is being deceived and how do we know?

    “An interesting thought… if the LDS church is a lie and Joseph Smith was deceived by a false spirit, then the only answer that could possibly be true is that the Catholic Church is the true Church of Christ.”

    Why? You are assuming Christ’s Church is an earthly organization.

    “Being formerly LDS, were your born a member or were you a convert to the Church? Did you serve a mission? How long have you not been associated with the Church?”

    I joined the Church after college and was a member 15 years. During my time in the Church I served in multiple callings…

    1. Elders Quorum President
    2. Stake Missionary
    3. Early Morning Seminary Teacher
    4. Ward Mission Leader
    5. Counselor in The Bishopric
    6. Stake High Council Member

    My wife was a lifelong member. Feel free to ask me anything you like.

    Hope that helps!

    As for yourself, how long have you been a member? Served a mission? What callings have you held?

    God Bless!!

    Darrell

  • Andrew

    Darrell,

    Sorry I don’t have time to respond tonight, I have lots to do as I prepare to leave for the weekend. While I’m gone I probably won’t have internet access, but I’ll be sure to jump back on and respond next week.

    Until then,

    Andrew

  • Andrew

    Hey Darrell,

    Sorry it has taken me so long to get back… it has been a crazy week!

    It seems as though when I try and answer your question of how do we know you always have something else to say about it. So this time I’d be interested to hear what you think… who do we know who is being deceived?

    As for my Church service, I’ve served as missionary, counselor in the Elders Quorum, Elders Quorum President, ward missionary, and instructor.

    Gotta run!

    Andrew

  • Andrew,

    Thanks for coming back on to continue the conversation. I hope you had a good time out of town.

    How long have you been off your mission?

    You asked:

    “…who do we know who is being deceived?”

    Well my wife and I left the LDS Church for Christianity because we believe the LDS Church is false and those who believe it’s teachings are being deceived. Perhaps you meant to ask me how we can know who is being deceived?

    Have a great night.

    Darrell

  • Andrew

    Darrell,

    Again, sorry it took so long to get back… things have gotten really busy.

    You’re right, I meant “how” not “who.” I guess I should find some time to proof read! 🙂 And I’ve been home from my mission for about three years.

    Sincerely,

    Andrew

  • Andrew,

    Thanks for coming back on. I assume based upon your e-mail address you are a student at BYU. Being 3 years off your mission are you a senior or going to graduate school? No need to answer if you don’t want to… I am just curious for conversation purposes.

    “How can we know who is being deceived?”

    That is a great question and strikes at the heart of this conversation. Looking at The Bible we find God has told us His Word does not change (Matt 5:18), He does not change (Malachi 3:6, James 1:17, Heb 13:8, Numbers 23:19) and, most important to this question, to judge prophecy by previous prophecy (1 Cor 14:32-33). Since God does not change and His word does not change, we can trust that what He has already revealed to us is true, accurate and unchanging. It can bring us comfort and confidence to know that contrary to our experiences with man, we won’t wake up tomorrow only to find God was wrong about something us or has changed His mind. Therefore, contrary to what JS tells us in D&C 129:4-8, we are not to judge whether a spirit is from God by trying to shake it’s hand. Rather, we are to compare what the spirit tells us with what God has already revealed in His unchanging Word, The Bible. If what the spirit tells us agrees with The Bible then we can know with confidence it is from God. However, if it tells us something contrary to what God has already revealed to us, we can know with confidence it is most certainly not from God.

    When I did this comparison I came to the conclusion Mormonism is false. Unfortunately, many LDS claims do not line up with and several flat out contradict what we are are told in The Bible.

    God Bless!

    Darrell

  • Andrew

    Hey Darrell!

    As for school… I’m still working on my undergrad. Although graduate school is in the future.

    You bring up excellent points. God doesn’t change! His word doesn’t change! As Latter-day Saints we don’t claim that He did. On the contrary, we claim that over the years his word has changed as has been interpreted by man. We see that happened throughout the reformation as different churches began to branch off. What we claim is that his word and his church has been restored.

    The scripture you shared, 1 Cor 14:32-33 is a perfect point. “God is not the author of confusion.” The great apostasy left the world in such a state of confusion as to which doctrine the churches were teaching is correct. Even within Christianity there is confusion and difference about the word (which is unchanging!).

    The confusion within Christianity was such that Constantine had to pull religious leaders together to form the Nicene Creed, where a definition of Deity could not be reached and so a compromise among men was made. You’re right! The Lord doesn’t change! Who is He to be left to compromise after heated debate among men?

    There are various scriptures in the Bible which support these claims of apostasy and restoration. How grateful I am for a loving Father in Heaven who together with his Son restored his truth, power, and word to the Earth again after centuries of confusion.

    God bless!

    Andrew

  • Andrew,

    I am glad we can agree God does not change and His word does not change. Many Mormons, including Mormon scholars such as Blake Ostler, do not completely agree with this point. It is refreshing to talk with a Mormon who holds to this orthodox doctrine.

    As I mentioned in a previous comment, since we know God does not change His Word we need to compare what a spirit tells us with what God has previously told us. In fact, we are commanded to do this. If what this spirit tells us is inconsistent with God’s previously revealed Word (The Bible) we can know with certainty the spirit is not from God. Unfortunately, this is what one finds when comparing the teachings of Mormonism with The Bible. Here are a few of the most important doctrines where Mormonism disagrees with the teachings of The Bible:

    1. The nature of God
    2. The nature of Jesus Christ
    3. The nature of man
    4. Theosis (related to the nature of man)

    Should you like, I would be happy to discuss these points.

    You mention the Mormon doctrine of The Great Apostasy. There are many reasons I do not believe in this erroneous LDS teaching. First, the scriptures used to support this teaching are largely taken out of context. They are prooftexts which when read in context do not say anything remotely close to what the LDS Church claims. In additon, the occurance of a great apostasy would prove Jesus to be a liar. He clearly told us the gates of hell would never prevail against His Church; however, if He was forced to remove His Church from the earth the gates of hell did in fact prevail. Personally, I do not think Jesus was wrong.

    Even if I were to accept the idea of a Great Apostasy I would still have problems with accepting Mormonism as the restored church. As I pointed out above, the teachings of Mormonism disagree on numerous points with God’s already revealed Word. Therefore, in order to accept Mormonism I have to believe that God changes and, as you and I have already established, He doesn’t!

    As to there being confusion within the Christian Church, this is a common Mormon misconception. I did a short post relevant to this topic here. In short, while there are always exceptions, for the most part Christians are quite united on the essentials of the Faith; however, we allow liberty on the non-essentials. Augustine put it rather succinctly:

    “In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.”

    When it comes to the topic of confusion, be careful about throwing stones. Mormons have much confusion within their own house. For example, as I pointed out in the beginning of this comment, many Mormons disagree with you about God changing. In addition, let’s look at just a few changes in LDS doctrine which have created confusion and in some cases produced splinter groups:

    1. From “God was once a man just like us” to “We don’t know a lot about that”
    2. From “Adam is God” to “The Adam God doctrine is heresy”
    3. From “Blood Atonement is necessary” to “no, it is not necessary and may even be considered heresy”
    4. From “Polygamy is part of the New and Everlasting Covenant” to “polygamy will get you excommunicated”

    I could keep going but I am sure you get my point.

    God Bless!!

    Darrell

  • Andrew

    Hey Darrell,

    Obviously the semester is getting the best of me so its been a while since I’ve gotten back to you! I think we have come to a point where we may have to agree to disagree. We could go on and on explaining “logically” both of our sides. You could say how Mormons take scriptures out of context and I could explain how they don’t. I could explain one doctrine and you could see it a different way.

    As Paul tells the Galatians in Galatians 1:10-12, he didn’t receive the Gospel by men, but by “revelation of Jesus Christ.” Like I say, we could continue to explain things by our logic, but that would be by men. I to, like Paul, must be obedient to my testimony received by revelation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    I hope you know, Darrell, that I appreciate the considerate and sincere way we’ve been able to discuss our beliefs. I would just like to ask you one final questions. You were a member of the Church for 15 years; why did you first believe?

    Sincerely,

    Andrew

  • Andrew,

    I agree we may just have to agree to disagree and I am perfectly OK with doing so. I enjoy having these conversations and, just as you say you are, am very passionate about my belief. Just a couple of points though – despite what you claim, my beliefs do not come “from men;” rather, I have garnered my beliefs from The Lord through His Spirit and His Word as contained in The Holy Bible. To say that I rely on the philosophies of men is nothing more than a Mormon caricature of Christian beliefs and is little more than a strawman.

    The difference between our positions really boil down to one thing – how does one know whether the spirit they are listening to is true or false. You approach The Bible with the a priori position that JS was a prophet of God and the Mormon Church is true – you already have your mind made up before you ever approach the text due soley to a “spiritual witness.” However, I approach The Bible in order to GARNER my beliefs – I do not decide what to believe and then proof text The Bible to support it. Rather than relying solely on a spiritual witness, I choose to compare what any spirit tells me with what God has already revealed. In doing so, I discovered that JS’s teachings contradict The Bible time and time again and therefore, the spirit which testifies to their truthfulness is not from God.

    Another interesting point – I NOW HAVE a spiritual witness that Mormonism is false and Christianity is true. Contrary to what you may believe, this spiritual witness brings me extreme peace and comfort. In fact, it has brought more love, joy and happiness into our home than anything we experienced while Mormon.

    Why did I first believe in the LDS Church? While I could spend quite a bit of time answering this question, let me just say this – I was misled by a false spirit due to the fact that I knew next to nothing about God’s Word in The Bible.

    God Bless!!

    Darrell

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  • Stefanie

    Brad,
    As a Mormon, I don’t have to dissect it and say his conclusions aren’t true or don’t make sense. In fact, they certainly could as they are directed to Christians that do not believe that the LDS church is true. In regards to the First Vision, I can say that it DID happen and that one of the two WAS Christ without saying that the Christ that you believe in is different than the one I believe in because I can say that you believe in the Christ of the New Testament but that you don’t know that He has called a prophet today. On my end, I can say that we are both Christians. Darrell may be right though that it doesn’t work the other way around. However, when saying that if he didn’t have the vision, it is unlikely that he could have led so many people to the true Christ, it wasn’t mentioned that the church he would have built had the Bible as part of its foundation. I think any Christian, LDS or otherwise can agree that the Bible leads the honest seeker to Christ. When you add that into the equation, it makes it a lot more likely and it’s okay for Christians of all denominations to see each other as Christians.

  • Stefanie,

    Thanks for coming on and sharing your perspective. I want to comment on one thing you mentioned. You said:

    However, when saying that if he didn’t have the vision, it is unlikely that he could have led so many people to the true Christ, it wasn’t mentioned that the church he would have built had the Bible as part of its foundation.

    The LDS Church does in fact claim that the Bible is part of its foundation. You are correct about this. However, while claiming this, they blatantly contradict many of the teachings of the Bible and claim the Bible to have errors and “plain and precious truths” which have been removed and changed. The most significant contradiction, in my opinion, is the very nature of Christ Himself… is He God or simply a spirit born son of God the Father who progressed to become “like unto” God. It is not enough to simply claim the Bible as part of your foundation; one must actually be willing to adhere to its teachings and claims as well.

    God Bless!

    Darrell

  • Stefanie

    Mormon theology does not teach that Christ is just a spirit-born Son of God that became like unto God. The reasons and sources for refuting that would be very numerous and I will not go into them here except to say that “Jesus the Christ” by James E. Talmage would be a good place to start, though with your background you are probably already familiar with it. And in that case, you should know that it isnt complete or accurate to say that Mormon theology teaches that He is “simply a spirit born son of God the Father who progressed to become “like unto” God”.

  • Stefanie,

    Mormonism does not teach that Jesus Christ has always existed as the one and only God. Rather, it teaches that He was spirit born of God the Father (the first spirit born and, as such, our older brother) and that He progressed to become “like unto God”. If my use of the word “simply” concerns you, please understand that I am not trying to insinuate that this is all that makes up Mormon Christology. My point is that this teaching signifies a marked difference between Christianity and Mormonism and, in addition, violates the Bible on numerous counts.

    Blessings,

    Darrell

  • Charlie

    “Why did I first believe in the LDS Church? While I could spend quite a bit of time answering this question, let me just say this – I was misled by a false spirit due to the fact that I knew next to nothing about God’s Word in The Bible.”

    Probably should have spent more time studying the Word of God while Mormon. There is a huge disconnect among many of your arguments, and you constantly testify of what you consider to be false. Sad.

  • Prentiss K Boan Jr

    Ignorance is slow to dying and sometimes it never does. Yes you were misled by a false spirit due to the fact that you knew nothing about the Bible.

    May Father God Bless and keep you and your’s!!

    JR.

  • Stefanie,

    Isn’t the whole reason that the LDS church was founded because all other churhes are an abomination to God? If so, how can you say that other Chrisian abominations are the same as your true Christianity? I am not sure how some mormons can claim that they are worshiping the same Christ as Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc., when they are an abomination precisely because they are wrong about who God and Christ are. It seems that Joseph Smith was, in fact, saying that he worshiped the true Christ while all other Christians worshiped a false Christ. Or am I missing something here?

    Thank you for this forum and this discussion.

  • Modinegrunch

    What about the book of Dogma? Darrell can you explain?

  • Please help me and answer this question. Is Mormonism a cult or not ?

  • Darrell

    Joyce,

    In order to answer that question, I need to ask what you mean by “cult”. Can you define your understanding of this word for me?

  • Universal_Life_Church

    You are 100% correct. Let’s not forget that Joseph Smith was a convicted con-man who committed adultry with other men’s wives.

  • Realizing this is a post from 3 years ago, I thought I would post, knowing others would read it. You all keep going back and forth with man’s wisdom, of how scripture is interpreted, but, think about this, “God is the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End” We are talking about a God who created heaven and earth and billions of stars, who keeps everything in order. Do you really believe He could not keep His Word, True and correct? He knew pharoh would harden his heart, against Moses, Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament a thousand years before He came, and not just one obscure little mention of Him, but, hundreds. I believe in the God of the Bible who is Omnipotent and is perfectly capable of keeping HIS WORD TRUE AND CORRECT.

  • Agreed.

  • David

    Can someone answer the question…if a Mormon believer is excommunicated from the LDS Church, how do they personally feel about their relationship with God and Jesus Christ? And, do they still believe they will go to heaven apart from the LDS Church?

  • Donna

    I would like to point out that you cannot take a quote out of context and promote your point of view.
    1 John 4:1 Dear Friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they’re from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    AND 1 John 4:2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God; Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
    If you believe the Bible is the word of God then all of these statements are true and Mormons definitely acknowledge Jesus Christ.
    Do you wish to argue this point?

  • wiggletail

    your churches roots were formed by demonic powers where the bible warned, *if possible they would fool the elect of GOD*. SATAN has powers too and is well capable of giving you feelings. he is the father of confusion and has fogged the way of your true salvation. he has a counterfeit for everything God does and because you get these *feelings from him* your faith STOPS HERE! he knows you will never find the kingdom of God here on earth as long as you get these *feelings* from him. i challenge you do find a spirit filled body of believers and i promise you when they lay hands on you and pray, its going to be more than a feeling you get from the TRUE HOLY SPIRIT! its so heavenly its undescribable and its not just a feeling inside of a peace or any other emotion you might feel inside. its an absolutely overwhelming fire that is all consuming and your spirit recognizes being one with its creator. once this happens you dont even have to ask in the way of testing the spirits. when my mother recieved the holy spirit she had been a falling away catholic for many years. i took her to a catholic charismatic prayer group where she was slain in the spirit and rested there for a while, in a joy and heavenly state beyond description. she was powerless and as she fell to the floor there were two born again believers breaking her fall. when we left i could hardly contain her she was so joyful she wanted to wake up everyone she knew and loved and literally wanted to shout it from the rooftop. she had me stop at my brothers house waking him up at almost midnight. he opened the door and she was crying tears of joy explaining to him she found jesus. he looked at me very worried and asked if we needed to take her to the hospital, i assured him we did not!LOL as far as the mormons belief about some great apostacy, it never happened in the catholic church! if we have lost anything believe me, its gone unnoticed! since joseph smiths claims, the catholic church along with a lot of our branches have experienced great moves of the holy spirit sweeping our churches in pentecost as in the chapter of acts. you might want to test the spirits here and ask yourself, if the catholic church lost the keys to the kingdom, would GOD continue to bless it with the holy spirits presense? this would seem to be a very confusing God and we all know and the scripture reads, * I AM NOT A GOD OF CONFUSION*. satan simply has a counterfeit for everything God does. the very foundation of the mormon church built on satanic rituals with seer stones, those are used to get answers from satan, and not God. from the very beginning of mormonism your temple was dedicated to satan with the *secret society* and secret *handshakes* of a very satanic background, free masons! GOD SAYS YOU CAN NOT SERVE TWO MASTERS! how can you explain direct ties to the drak world intertwined with a christian faith? i feel so sad for you guys because i meet some of the sweetest mormon missionairies, am working with two right now, as you well know they are very persistant even from day one i have told them i am catholic and will never be a mormon but i love you and to make your journey easier i will be here to always extend a hand of hospitality accomodating you with your choice of refreshments for the journey, i never go to the grocery store without stocking up things for them. they are sweet hearts and yes, they would love to convert me and are so sweet in offering to help me do things but unlike their church, i refuse to exploit these future CHRISTIANS. i claim victory over their lives in the name of Jesus CHRIST! I HAVE ANNOINTED THEM BOTH WITH HOLY OIL AND DRENCHED THEM IN PRAYER and taught them we must share our differences. we pray together but in doing so i have literally kicked their mormon bible across the floor, along with my catholic bible while showing them, we dont need the spirit of religion to pray to our GOD or for our prayers to be answered as no church can reduce or contain HIM but only confuse its body of christ if you let it!these guys are attending an event tonight with a body of true believers, let the spirit lead! hallelujah! i can promise you this much, if they submit and recite the sinners prayer with this bunch tonight its going to be life changing and they wont even think to ask what joe smith thinks about anything. there will be no doubt, or no reason to care or ask anything. praise God ! come and see what God can do!!! bottomline, i love you andrew. as long as you let the mormon church and doctrine make decisions for your life, you wont have a life outside the web of lies and deceit. know this, satan doesnt caRE IF YOU READ THE HOLY BIBLE because he already rewrote it for you the deceptive way he wanted it done. he does not care how much you talk about loving jesus because he already knows as long as you listen to his false doctrine, you will never know the true existance and never find the personal body of christ. as long as your believe the lies of the great apostacy in the counterfeit catholic church, you will never know your true family in christ in Gods holy pilgrim church on earth where Jesus made it very clear, *upon this rock i build my church, to you peter (the rock ) and i will be with it until the end of time, hold fast to the traditions of the faith and let no man steal your crown! there is only one question to ask now to test the spirits. is the book of mormon true? if it is you may as well throw it and the holy bible in the fire furnace because apparently GOD IS A LIAR. AND MORMONS MUST HAVE BEEN DECIEVED EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS THE CATHOLICS BECAUSE IF GOD LIED, JESUS LIED TO THE ORIGINAL TWELVE, WE ALL KNOW THE BOOK OF MORMON AND ITS COMPANIONS ARE EVEN BIGGER FOOLS AND LIARS!

  • Well written. If you believe Jesus IS God, and your husband does not believe Jesus IS God, what does your husband believe Jesus is?

  • Darrell, can you cite chapter and verse where the Mormon book describes Jesus as you describe above?

  • David, no human or organization stands between you and The Lord God. No one can be “excommunicated”, though some religious organizations run that meme in order to claim control over salvation. Any religious body that claims to have authority over others relationship with The Lord God is a false religion. And all false religions have Satan at their center. Does the Mormon religion claim the authority to deny salvation, or to “excommunicate”? (that word makes me laugh.)

  • I am interested in arguing that Mormons are unsaved, and that all saved “mormons” leave the so-called LDS.

  • darrellboan

    TruthToMan,

    This particular LDS belief is not found in the Book of Mormon. It is partially found in the D&C and in the teachings of Joseph Smith.